Re: Why did page print too dark? -TAN- color management
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Feb 19
Bret Perry Re: Why did page print too dark? -TAN- color management
Feb 19, 2010; 09:58
Bret Perry
Re: Why did page print too dark? -TAN- color management
I agree, that's true for grayscale conversions, must adjust!
I was responding to Roy's color-management inquiry which you'll find at the very bottom of this post... ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: InDesign Talk [mailto:indesign@lists.lassosoft.com] On Behalf Of Roger Weiner
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:38 AM
To: InDesign Talk
Subject: Re: Why did page print too dark?
Bret,
You may have missed the point.
She just clicked to convert RGB to grayscale to print photo as
grayscale. It has nothing to do with RGB or CMYK workflow or profiles.
You generally almost always need to adjust the grayscale image for
brightness and contrast.
Roger
Bret Perry wrote:
> Our workflow (in hopes it may guide you) ... For print work,
> Whether or not to use color profiles is dependent on your internal proofing needs (does your ink-jet or color laser-printer use a color profile and do the results of using the profile warrant the extra effort).
> AND whether or not your printing vendor can make use of the profiles (most separators/printing vendors I have worked with big and small do not, and throw away the profiles anyway)
>
> Personally I do use the profiles in-house and get much truer colors on output that way, but for separations most of my printing vendors do not. One does, and he supplies me with his custom profile. The other just ignore my profiles.
>
> You can always change your bridge settings back, and the nags will go away (or you can script changing all you documents' profiles).
> If you had NO settings before, with no documents open, in Photoshop's top menu -- edit... color settings... you can just uncheck the "profiles - ask when opening" in Photoshop (and other apps if you use them). Or set the profiles to "off" under color management profiles.
>
> Similarly, whether to use rgb or cmyk depends exclusively on your color separator/printing vendor's needs.
> Most of my work uses cmyk for images. I have one vendor who has a true rgb workflow and keeps all images in rgb (with his custom profile) until ripping. Another wants rgb files at first round, then supplies me cmyk images separated to his custom profile for "finals" and we replace all the images at that point.
>
> In general, rgb gives you more latitude and you can get better results IF your vendor has an rgb workflow. Also better for repurposing for web, pdfs, etc.
> RGB is where it is headed, BUT not many printing vendors are there yet.
> But if I don't know who will print it, I use cmyk, as that is better understood by most and is perfectly fine for all but the highest-quality printing and widest latitude images.
>
> For RGB the only setting worth using is Adobe RGB (has a much wider gamut) unless you are prepping for web, and then sRGB may be better (for PC viewing).
> For cmyk, pick the one your vendor recommends. (I being in USA, usually use SWOP for web presses)
>
> With InDesign, psd's and ai's in general work more smoothly and certainly offer more design options than tiffs or eps.
> I use psd's and ai's exclusively and even convert old jobs to psd and ai (were tiff and eps or dcs)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: InDesign Talk [mailto:indesign@lists.lassosoft.com] On Behalf Of Roy McCoy
> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 4:13 PM
> To: InDesign Talk
> Subject: Re: Why did page print too dark?
>
> P.S. Oh great... Googling on
> indesign transparency pdf compatibility "too dark"
> I found an interesting-looking article at www.edesignerz.net,
> "10 Pre-Press Tips For Perfect Print Publishing", and so I
> checked it out. It suggested a way of doing things that was
> new for me, but I was ready to swing with these changes.
> Use RGB rather than CMYK, really? OK, I guess... Use PSD
> rather than TIFF? Er, if you say so. But there was also this:
>
>
>> To successfully use an RGB image in Adobe InDesign, you first
>> need to specify the appropriate color settings. Fortunately,
>> Adobe has made it really easy for you to specify the right
>> settings and quickly apply them across its Creative Suite.
>> This is where Adobe Bridge comes in.
>> To specify a color setting in Adobe Bridge, choose Edit →
>> Creative Suite Color Settings and then select your region:
>> either “North America Prepress 2,†“Europe Prepress 2″ or
>> “Japan Prepress 2.†If your region isn’t displayed in the
>> dialog box, select “Show Expanded List Of Color Settings Filesâ€
>> at the bottom of the dialog box. After clicking “Apply,†the
>> setting you have specified will be applied to Adobe InDesign,
>> Photoshop, Illustrator and Acrobat.
>>
> So I set this to "Europe Prepress 2". Yippee. Then:
>
>
>> Once you’ve downloaded and installed the ICC profiles, they’ll be
>> available to InDesign. You don’t even need to select the right
>> profile and assign it to your InDesign document. All you have to
>> do is select the right ICC profile when you export the document
>> to PDF (Export → Output → Color Conversion& Destination).
>> Although you don’t need to assign the right CMYK profile, I
>> would recommend it, because it allows InDesign to match the
>> colors when you select the “Proof Colors†command.
>> After choosing File → Export and specifying Adobe PDF as the
>> file format, select the “Output†category on the left side of
>> the “Export Adobe PDF†dialog box. Choose the appropriate CMYK
>> destination from the “Destination†menu, so that InDesign can
>> optimally convert all RGB images to CMYK. Also, be sure to select
>> “Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers)†from the “Color
>> Conversionâ€
>> menu so that the colors you’ve created in InDesign will maintain
>> their
>> original values.
>>
> This seemed generally confusing. I couldn't imagine a need to download
> profiles, first of all, because I had them without having downloaded
> them and so I assumed everybody else would too. Further, should you
> select and assign a profile or not? "You don't even need to... All you
> have to do is... Although you don't need to... I would recommend it."
> Still in a blur from this wishy-washiness, I opened an ID file to see
> about the Output options and boing! a disconcerting alert:
>
> "Profile or Policy [?] Mismatch
> The RGB settings in this document are different than your current
> application colour settings.
> How do you want to proceed?
> O Leave the document as is:
> Policy: Preserve [not changeable]
> Profile: sRGB IEC61966-2.1
> O Adjust the document to match current colour settings:
> Policy: Preserve [not changeable]
> Assign Profile: [popup w/long list]
> Placed Content: [Enable All Profiles, Disable All Profiles, or
> Keep Existing Assignments]"
>
> The immediate annoyance was that it appeared I was now going to get
> this alert when opening all my docs, and that I had brought this on
> myself by blithely accepting the advice on this web page and making
> the recommended change in Adobe Bridge. It would have been and would
> be less galling, however, if I at least understood what was going on
> and really knew what to do in response to this alert, and in fact
> regarding the whole thing.
>
> Can anyone advise me?
>
> Shall I indeed not save files in CMYK anymore, but rather RGB?
>
> Shall I indeed not save files in TIFF anymore, but rather PSD?
>
> And shall I perhaps de-synchronize my CS whatchacallit settings to
> escape the new and undesired every-doc alert? If so, how? If not,
> how may I best deal with it?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Roy
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/InDesign/Browse/
> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/InDesign/
>
>
>
>
> --
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> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/InDesign/Browse/
> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/InDesign/
>
>
>
--
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I was responding to Roy's color-management inquiry which you'll find at the very bottom of this post... ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: InDesign Talk [mailto:indesign@lists.lassosoft.com] On Behalf Of Roger Weiner
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 9:38 AM
To: InDesign Talk
Subject: Re: Why did page print too dark?
Bret,
You may have missed the point.
She just clicked to convert RGB to grayscale to print photo as
grayscale. It has nothing to do with RGB or CMYK workflow or profiles.
You generally almost always need to adjust the grayscale image for
brightness and contrast.
Roger
Bret Perry wrote:
> Our workflow (in hopes it may guide you) ... For print work,
> Whether or not to use color profiles is dependent on your internal proofing needs (does your ink-jet or color laser-printer use a color profile and do the results of using the profile warrant the extra effort).
> AND whether or not your printing vendor can make use of the profiles (most separators/printing vendors I have worked with big and small do not, and throw away the profiles anyway)
>
> Personally I do use the profiles in-house and get much truer colors on output that way, but for separations most of my printing vendors do not. One does, and he supplies me with his custom profile. The other just ignore my profiles.
>
> You can always change your bridge settings back, and the nags will go away (or you can script changing all you documents' profiles).
> If you had NO settings before, with no documents open, in Photoshop's top menu -- edit... color settings... you can just uncheck the "profiles - ask when opening" in Photoshop (and other apps if you use them). Or set the profiles to "off" under color management profiles.
>
> Similarly, whether to use rgb or cmyk depends exclusively on your color separator/printing vendor's needs.
> Most of my work uses cmyk for images. I have one vendor who has a true rgb workflow and keeps all images in rgb (with his custom profile) until ripping. Another wants rgb files at first round, then supplies me cmyk images separated to his custom profile for "finals" and we replace all the images at that point.
>
> In general, rgb gives you more latitude and you can get better results IF your vendor has an rgb workflow. Also better for repurposing for web, pdfs, etc.
> RGB is where it is headed, BUT not many printing vendors are there yet.
> But if I don't know who will print it, I use cmyk, as that is better understood by most and is perfectly fine for all but the highest-quality printing and widest latitude images.
>
> For RGB the only setting worth using is Adobe RGB (has a much wider gamut) unless you are prepping for web, and then sRGB may be better (for PC viewing).
> For cmyk, pick the one your vendor recommends. (I being in USA, usually use SWOP for web presses)
>
> With InDesign, psd's and ai's in general work more smoothly and certainly offer more design options than tiffs or eps.
> I use psd's and ai's exclusively and even convert old jobs to psd and ai (were tiff and eps or dcs)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: InDesign Talk [mailto:indesign@lists.lassosoft.com] On Behalf Of Roy McCoy
> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 4:13 PM
> To: InDesign Talk
> Subject: Re: Why did page print too dark?
>
> P.S. Oh great... Googling on
> indesign transparency pdf compatibility "too dark"
> I found an interesting-looking article at www.edesignerz.net,
> "10 Pre-Press Tips For Perfect Print Publishing", and so I
> checked it out. It suggested a way of doing things that was
> new for me, but I was ready to swing with these changes.
> Use RGB rather than CMYK, really? OK, I guess... Use PSD
> rather than TIFF? Er, if you say so. But there was also this:
>
>
>> To successfully use an RGB image in Adobe InDesign, you first
>> need to specify the appropriate color settings. Fortunately,
>> Adobe has made it really easy for you to specify the right
>> settings and quickly apply them across its Creative Suite.
>> This is where Adobe Bridge comes in.
>> To specify a color setting in Adobe Bridge, choose Edit →
>> Creative Suite Color Settings and then select your region:
>> either “North America Prepress 2,†“Europe Prepress 2″ or
>> “Japan Prepress 2.†If your region isn’t displayed in the
>> dialog box, select “Show Expanded List Of Color Settings Filesâ€
>> at the bottom of the dialog box. After clicking “Apply,†the
>> setting you have specified will be applied to Adobe InDesign,
>> Photoshop, Illustrator and Acrobat.
>>
> So I set this to "Europe Prepress 2". Yippee. Then:
>
>
>> Once you’ve downloaded and installed the ICC profiles, they’ll be
>> available to InDesign. You don’t even need to select the right
>> profile and assign it to your InDesign document. All you have to
>> do is select the right ICC profile when you export the document
>> to PDF (Export → Output → Color Conversion& Destination).
>> Although you don’t need to assign the right CMYK profile, I
>> would recommend it, because it allows InDesign to match the
>> colors when you select the “Proof Colors†command.
>> After choosing File → Export and specifying Adobe PDF as the
>> file format, select the “Output†category on the left side of
>> the “Export Adobe PDF†dialog box. Choose the appropriate CMYK
>> destination from the “Destination†menu, so that InDesign can
>> optimally convert all RGB images to CMYK. Also, be sure to select
>> “Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers)†from the “Color
>> Conversionâ€
>> menu so that the colors you’ve created in InDesign will maintain
>> their
>> original values.
>>
> This seemed generally confusing. I couldn't imagine a need to download
> profiles, first of all, because I had them without having downloaded
> them and so I assumed everybody else would too. Further, should you
> select and assign a profile or not? "You don't even need to... All you
> have to do is... Although you don't need to... I would recommend it."
> Still in a blur from this wishy-washiness, I opened an ID file to see
> about the Output options and boing! a disconcerting alert:
>
> "Profile or Policy [?] Mismatch
> The RGB settings in this document are different than your current
> application colour settings.
> How do you want to proceed?
> O Leave the document as is:
> Policy: Preserve [not changeable]
> Profile: sRGB IEC61966-2.1
> O Adjust the document to match current colour settings:
> Policy: Preserve [not changeable]
> Assign Profile: [popup w/long list]
> Placed Content: [Enable All Profiles, Disable All Profiles, or
> Keep Existing Assignments]"
>
> The immediate annoyance was that it appeared I was now going to get
> this alert when opening all my docs, and that I had brought this on
> myself by blithely accepting the advice on this web page and making
> the recommended change in Adobe Bridge. It would have been and would
> be less galling, however, if I at least understood what was going on
> and really knew what to do in response to this alert, and in fact
> regarding the whole thing.
>
> Can anyone advise me?
>
> Shall I indeed not save files in CMYK anymore, but rather RGB?
>
> Shall I indeed not save files in TIFF anymore, but rather PSD?
>
> And shall I perhaps de-synchronize my CS whatchacallit settings to
> escape the new and undesired every-doc alert? If so, how? If not,
> how may I best deal with it?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Roy
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/InDesign/Browse/
> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/InDesign/
>
>
>
>
> --
> This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
> Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/InDesign/Browse/
> Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/InDesign/
>
>
>
--
Choose print. The paper industry plants more than it harvests and today there are 25% more trees in the developed world than in 1900. Paper is biodegradable, renewable and sustainable. Growing and harvesting trees provides jobs while forestry plantations provide clean air, clean water, wildlife habitat and carbon storage. A decline in the demand for paper products risks a decline in sustainably managed re-growth forests. Use print, it is tangible, it is effective in getting your message across and when recycled it will come back to us as paper or board.
--
This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/InDesign/Browse/
Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/InDesign/
--
This list is a free service of LassoSoft: http://www.LassoSoft.com/
Search the list archives: http://www.ListSearch.com/InDesign/Browse/
Manage your subscription: http://www.ListSearch.com/InDesign/
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